Guiding True Political Reform in the State of New York
19 Feb
Upstate New York pays the highest property taxes in the county. That’s not news to any of us who pay taxes here.
The surprise is that our property taxes are significantly—and disproportionately—higher than those paid by in other parts of the state.
As a result, the price we pay goes beyond the dollars and cents and hurts our communities, our families and our economy.
According to the New York State Comptroller’s Office, property taxes on a home in Rochester valued at $100,000 are just under $4,000. Taxes on a $100,000 home in Yonkers (Westchester County) are less than half that ($1,773) while in South Hampton (Suffolk County) they are almost a tenth of that ($456).
The result is a competitive disadvantage or a “property tax surcharge” felt in every part of our lives:
• Community: The exorbitant taxes discourage homeownership, one of the keys to a successful and stable community.
• Seniors: High property taxes make it hard—and too often impossible—for people on fixed incomes, like many seniors, to stay in their homes.
• Economy: To business leaders our property tax burden is like a big red sign that proclaims: Go Away! Consider a large company in the service industry considering relocating. They calculate the cost to live for themselves and their employees and are forced to look elsewhere. Or a large manufacturing company. They add up the taxes on the headquarters, the manufacturing plant, the warehouses, parking lots and so on and the property taxes on all that land too often sends them elsewhere.
The most insidious part is that high property taxes contribute to a never ending cycle: as the taxes go up, property values go down. As property values go down local governments raise property taxes to maintain revenue. As taxes go up . . .
Unfortunately, as you know all too well, our staggering property tax burden is on top of an already high personal income tax and some of the highest sales taxes in the nation.
Identifying the problems high property taxes cause, and this striking upstate/downstate disparity, is only the first step. The problem has many causes and has been years in the making and, candidly, may take years to solve.
I hope you have signed our petition demanding relief. Please join our discussion on how to solve this problem by telling us what you think. Excelsior!
[Originally appeared in Rochester Democrat & Chronicle, February 8, 2009]
49 Responses for "Property Taxes"
Mr. Golisano, you are right on the money! Statistics recently published by the Tax Foundation verify that when calculated as a percentage of property value, property taxes in Upstate New York are the highest IN THE NATION!
I would be willing to bet that if a similar calculation were performed on utility rates, those, also, would be the highest in the nation.
What needs to be considered is the cause: State Policy forged from a Downstate Perspective. This was forced upon us by the US Supreme Court’s 60s-era split decision in Lomenzo v WMCA which (erroneously in my view) said that ‘one-man one-vote’ was required by the ‘equal protection’ clause of the Constitution, and required reapportionment of the NYS legislature. Before reapportionment, Upstate interests were predominant in Senate legislation, Downstate in the Assembly, and the bill reconciliation process that would take place before laws were passed to the governor for signature balanced both.
Since reapportionment, the Upstate Perspective has been lost. The Downstate Perspective has resulted in closure of the Shoreham Long Island Nuke plant, exemption of power line siting from SEQR review under the Environmental Conservation Law, the Marcy-South power line, routing our ‘cheap’ Upstate hydropower south to relieve Downstaters’ higher rates (caused in part by closing Shoreham); maintaining Tolls on the Thruway long after the bonds were paid off and longer after the Federal government paid NYS for the road; removal of tolls from certain Downstate roads and transferring expenses to the Thruway; a host of regulations that make it more difficult for Upstate to maintain its manufacturers; rules that use state (our) money to encourage redevelopment on brownfields in Manhattan and Brooklyn but which are unworkable for Upstate brownfields where land values are lower; and a whole host of social programs that make sense in the Metropolitan area, but not here.
Nothing will change Upstate without recognizing this as the root cause.
Bingo right on the nail, almost all of the other letters talk about revals or some other issue that is less relevant to the over all tax picture. Revals make your assessed value go up, BUDGETS make your taxes go up. Simply put if your home is revaled and goes up 100% your taxes remain the same unless the budget goes up. I have been fighting this fight for the better part of thirty years. I was a town supervisor of a town that had TWO incorporated villages all for a total population of 2800 people.Now having said that unless we make down state into the 51st state we are not going to be able to do anything about the disparity of taxes between us and them. What we need is consolidation of towns, villages, school districts and counties.
There should be little doubt that we live in a country and a state where perception is reality, where expressive style trumps meaning, where delivery means more than fact and where looks mean more than substance. Otherwise
- Entertainers would not be paid what they are paid
- So much money would not be spent on advertising
- The quote Aa sucker is born every minute@ would have no meaning
- There would be no need for lawyers or salesman or at least half of congress.
We must do evrerything we can to get control back from politicians and lawyers
it,s too bad that western new york can not annex its self from the rest of the state.we would be better off to figure our future in this state.
thank goodness for tom golisano!
he persists in his efforts against tremendous odds.
new york has for too long been one of the stupid states and we have suffered for it.
if we don”t stop it, it will get worse. we must stop supporting those politicians like bloomberg and patterson who are statists and socialists.
vote accordingly.
The issue isn’t real estate taxes. High real estate taxes are the reisult of the State forcing their obligations to the local governments.
Responsibilty from our statewide leaders is needed but won’t happen now. We have a weak and accidental Governor who talks tough but doesn’t follow up. Look at all those tax increases in the budget.
In additon to that the Governor hasn’t even addressed his biggest obstacle - Speaker Silver.
“Statistics recently published by the Tax Foundation verify that when calculated as a percentage of property value, property taxes in Upstate New York are the highest IN THE NATION!”
But this means nothing!!!!!
The value of our property is much lower here than in other parts of the state. Percentage mean nothing. Let’s say all of our homes were valued tomorrow at twice the value, but our taxes stayed the same. Then our tax rate would drop by half. Big deal!
The real question is “Why is our up-state elected officials town, county, state, NOT addressing the root cause of these tax issues????????????????”
Example in Webster NY do we need Town an Village duplicate governments with pensions etc.
Mr. Golisano thank you for your infulence and your fighting spirit to help hold our communities together. While the big fight for the upstate economy issues will take years, I believe there are a few things we can do on a smaller, local level to help the average homeowner deal with the ever increasing tax burden. I feel that the basic star should follow the property upon the sale, instead of a new homeowner having to wait and apply for it in March and have to escrow true taxes upon purchase. This would help many new homeowners lower their closing costs and help with qualifing . In our area, while they may qualify for the purchase price, adding the true taxes puts that home out of reach for some. Additional excemptions could be applied for later. If a property for sale is assessed for much higher than it’s true value, and the assessed value has been lowered during the listing process, the tax savings should be immediate,and not have to wait until the next tax season to be in effect. I also would like to see a mandatory disclaimer on the letters sent to residents when their town is doing a re-assessment that informs them about the true nature ofa higher assessed value. Most letters claim a reduction in town taxes or a small increase. What they fail to tell residents is that doesn’t include what their school or county taxes will do with the new assessed value. Towns should shoulder the responsibilty of disclosing this information to its residents. I hope your influence can see some of these small changes which I believe would have a great impact on our communities. I’ve always said that NYC and the boroughs should be on their own. As you probably have guessed I am a Realtor. I tried to join a website used by many Manhattan Realtors. I was told I could join, but not have full priviledges because I was a “foreigner.” I needed a Manhattan address to join and receive the full benefits of the site. As far as I know my license is good for all of NYS. What am I missing? I know what I’m proposing is more complicated then it sounds, but I believe the work that it takes could be a long term benefit to keeping our local economy moving in the right direction. The time is now to be proactive in making positive changes no matter how small. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time!
The State needs to live within a budget like we do. They are great at spending, aka-wasting, our money. Cut government. Term limits and pay the politicians based on how they perform.
Thank you Tom for taking a leadership role to bring about much needed change in NY.
Mr Golisano-
Thank you for building the framework for taxpayers in Upstate New York to build support for reform. Realizing that almost $.65 on the property tax dollar goes to supporting our public school systems, I believe that we should demand a more efficient system of management from the state. My wish list would include contract negotiations to control increasing benefit costs, the formation of central county school districts and avoucher system to allow the taxpayer to use their school tax dollars where their children would benefit most. The current school system cannot be supported forever. If we cannot control our spending there will be no one left in the state to pay for the unreasonable medicaid costs with which our area is unfortunately burdened to pay, because people will move to a state that has a system of taxation which is more efficient for individuals to live a quality life. We need to demand change from our elected officials or no one will be left in the state to govern.
Where can accurate information on the cost components of our taxes be found?
Downstaters have a large population base to spread the fixed part of the tax over. This could account for part of the wide disparity.
However, if the fixed components of tax are largely generated by the situation downstate, then we are paying far more than our fair share per capita. That is because there are far fewer upstaters to carry the load.
Hopefully, Mr. Golisano has a good understanding of these details and will share his knowledge with us.
Term Limits, Term Limits, Term Limits. We need the current government out of the way if anything is to be fixed. There also needs to be some representation for the people in this state as it seems only the voices of CSEA and NYSUT are currently being heard. Maybe all of the taxpayers in the private sector businesses should join together to form their own union since we are the ones who actually pay for the government. In the meantime, and on a lighter note, here are some signs we should consider putting up at our borders to let people know what NY is like:
- Welcome to New York, please take out your wallet (you will need it)
- Welcum to New York home of the most expensive edjication systm in the country
Your right Tom. This state is totally out of control. I’ve just received a notice from the town of Hounsfield in Jefferson County that the assessed valuation of our 816 square foot log cabin up there has increased by $33000 this year for an estimated tax incresae of $350. Where is this collapse of real values occurring? This is a resort area but this is rediculous. They just finished a $3,500,000 athletic complex at the school in Sackets Harbor (town of Hounsfield) as the enrollment continues to fall. There are four school districts in this area where a twelve mile drive can put you in any one of them. Again, rediculous.
One factor that is never mentioned is the amount of property that is off the tax rolls. This should be publicized. The state agrees and has required all proposed budgets to provide a list of such properties. For Erie County find in 2008 Budget Book A pgs 456-467.
Keep in mind IDA properties are off the tax rolls by virtue of unelected boards
I have a better idea, lets separate upstate and downstate into two separate tax districts. we pay for ours, they can pay for theirs…simple and easy
Mr. Golisano,
Since roughly half of my high tax bill goes towards education alone, that seems to be a good place to start. Instead of just talking to the state government about it, we should be lobbying the federal government to step up and increase national education funding to help take the burden off of local taxpayers. Having more central control of national education through the federal government could also help institute REAL standards that ALL states have to meet to help keep all of our students on a level academic playing field. Keep up the good work here in NY, but don’t forget that there is a LOT more money to be won from the federal government.
Perception is NOT Reality!
Real Property Tax Relief means abolishing the property tax and consolidating the multitude of governments that are strangling our families and our economic growth. To insist that a homeowner pay taxes proportionate with their perceived ability to pay is ludicrous!
A retired farm couple with many acres of land may have a high assessed value (which is nothing more than the assessor’s opinion), and will therefore eventually be taxed off their own property.
A working family living in a $100,000 house will pay twice the taxes of a working family living in a $50,000 house; for what??? To satisfy the baloney perception that they can afford it. The family in the $100,000 house may be able to afford their home, but not necessarily the property taxes that go with it.
The proposed New York State property tax “circuit breaker” has the same flaw - it would punish those that are successful or have earned good jobs with higher taxes, just because they can allegedly afford it; according to whom? The reward for hard work and effort is MORE TAXES!
ABOLISH the property tax, replace it with a fair consumption-based tax, where the more wealthy that consume more taxable goods will pay more taxes. We are a smarter state and nation than when the property tax was instituted, and we all deserve better than the current system of “renting” our property from the government from year to year.
The sad aspect of these interesting discussions is political in nature. Our residents in the upstate town of Rush loudly lament the property taxes that they pay and yet we return the same people to the state senate, state assembly, and local town government year after year. Surprise ! We get the same results.
But this is not just a problem of voters being ill informed or stupid, it is a problem of not having viable energetic candidates who are willing to spend the time at the grass roots level to win election, and then willing to stand fast when budget/spending time comes around and special interests begin mud slinging.
Before we lay out our wishes for consolidation or rationalization we need to consider how the NYS political system works and we need to have candidates that can marshall the votes to replace the entrenched Dems and Reps…. wayne
I had written a short time ago about this topic but have not yet gotten a response. The property tax issue in NYS is something near and dear to my heart.
I embarked on a two year battle with the Town of Whitestown NY that took me through a standard SCAR proceeding and then Supreme Court where I was successful.
Not only are our property taxes out of control but, the methodology utilized by the state is extremely flawed. I have yet to hear any one speak out about not paying taxes. they just want to pay what is fair. In the State of NY 40 to 60% of “all” assessments are not accurate which places an additional burden on the property owner.
i am one that chose to fight and have been successful. I have been encouraging property owners throughout the state to do the same.
I have also written a book and would like to send you a copy. If property owners stand up for themselves in current market conditions they can offset any increase that is imposed upon them.
I have also attached a link to an informative website that goes hand in hand with what you are trying to accomplish.
http://www.townofnewhartford.com/FIGHTINGBACK/printableorder.html
Thank you.
I had written a short time ago about this topic but have not yet gotten a response. The property tax issue in NYS is something near and dear to my heart.
I embarked on a two year battle with the Town of Whitestown NY that took me through a standard SCAR proceeding and then Supreme Court where I was successful.
Not only are our property taxes out of control but, the methodology utilized by the state is extremely flawed. I have yet to hear any one speak out about not paying taxes. they just want to pay what is fair. In the State of NY 40 to 60% of “all” assessments are not accurate which places an additional burden on the property owner.
I am one that chose to fight and have been successful. I have been encouraging property owners throughout the state to do the same.
I have also written a book and would like to send you a copy. If property owners stand up for themselves in current market conditions they can offset any increase that is imposed upon them.
I have also attached a link to an informative website that goes hand in hand with what you are trying to accomplish.
http://www.townofnewhartford.com/FIGHTINGBACK/joeindex.htm
This is a corrected version of the first comment that had an incorrect link attached.
Thank you.
We need to make it more difficult for people to move into New York State who immediately apply for and receive welfare, foodstamps and medicaid. If we didn’t have to carry these people all of our taxes would be lower.
I emailed my state representative, Brian Kolb, about this inequality in property taxes. I received an answer from his Chief of Staff, Doug Finch. Here is part of his response: “I have been working to verify numbers, but wanted you to know that we did receive your email.
As you are aware, Assemblyman Kolb continues to be very concerned about the large amount of taxes we as Upstate residents are paying, and all residents of New
York State.”
I just emailed him again because it’s been a month since this email. I figured he’s been given enough time to research this information. After all, I can get my property tax information for Ontario county in a matter of a few minutes.
I’ll be back with an update when I receive it.
When I paid my Town and County taxes, 25% was for medicaid!!!!!! We hand out checks to people who can work, but refuse to and we do nothing about it! School taxes are 50% of my insane tax bill. How much more can we take? We are stressed as to where our money will come from to pay for these insane taxes. If we speak up at a school board meeting, our children will be marked and suffer the consequences of us doing our DUTY to speak up! Thank you and let’s keep fighting for real reform. Help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Recent articles in business magazines such as “Forbes” continue to point out the folly of living in NYS. I am paying $13,250 real estate taxes here in WNY. A comparable house in the very upscale community of Fairhope, AL would cost approximately $2,000. Over $11,000 difference per year ! Plus a lower income tax rate and sales tax rate. We may not be able to find buyers for our homes before long. This is what has already happened in Michigan.
I posted the folowing comment a wfhile ago, but no response!?
WE ARE ALL AWARE OF THE STATE OF OUR ECONOMY AND KNOW HOW IT HAS AFFECTED THE CITIZENS OF OUR COUNTRY AND OUR COMMUNITY. MANY HAVE HAD TO, OR WILL HAVE TO CHANGE SPENDING HABITS. THE TIME IS PAST WHEN MANY INDIVIDUALS, COMPANIES, SCHOOLS AND GOVERNMENT CAN SPEND WITHOUT FIRST ASKING – “DO I REALLY NEED IT” OR “CAN WE MAKE DO WITHOUT IT”?
SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER ME. I WAS A FULL-TIME VOLUNTEER IN THE FIRST GRADE CLASS AT COLEBROOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL FROM 1994-2005. I HAVE LONG QUESTIONED SCHOOL SPENDING, BUT I UNDERSTAND AM PERSONALLY AWARE OF THE VALUE OF EDUCATION IN ANYONE’S LIFE.
BUT AT A TIME WHEN MILLIONS HAVE LOST THEIR JOBS AND THE WELFARE ROLLS AND FOOD/CLOTHING CHARITIES ARE BEING INUNDATED WITH REQUESTS AND APPLICATIONS FOR RELIEF, WE CANNOT DO BUSINESS IN THE SAME OLD WAY. COST REDUCTION IS A NECCESSITY!FOLLOWING ARE MY THOUGHTS FOR YOUR DEBATE AND CONSIDERATION.
TEACHER/ADMINISTRATOR’S SALARIES AND BENEFITS NEED TO BE SCUTINIZED. WE NEED TO HOLD THE LINE AGAINST RAISES AND BENEFITS. THE TEACHER’S UNION AND ADMINISTRATOR’S CHAMPIONS MUST BE TOLD THAT THE GOOD TIMES ARE OVER. WE NEED STRONG, TOUGH NEGOTIATORS IN OUR CORNER AND I’M NOT SURE THAT OUR SCHOOL BOARD, PRESENT OR PAST IS OR WAS UP TO THE TASK. I AM OF THE OPINION THAT NO SCHOOL DISTRICT NEEDS SO MANY SUPERINTENDENTS. WHY NOT ONE SUPERINTENDENT AND AN ASSISTANT?
ANOTHER LARGE EXPENSE IS HEALTH CARE BENEFITS AFFORDED THE TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATORS. MOST OF THOSE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE EMPLOYED IN TODAY’S ECONOMY DO NOT GET ANYWHERE NEAR WHAT IS ALLOWED IN OUR DISTRICT CONTRACTS. MANY EMPLOYERS OFFER GROUP COVERAGE BUT PAY NOTHING TOWARD INDIVIDUAL PREMIUMS…THE EMPLOYEE PAYS HIS OWN WAY. CAN’T BE DONE? NEGOTIATE!
AND NOW THAT THE SCHOOLS HAVE AIR-CONDITIONING, WHY NOT EXTEND THE SCHOOL YEAR THROUGH JULY AND GET MORE FOR YOUR TEACHING DOLLARS? CAN’T BE DONE? NEGOTIATE !HAS ANYONE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED OUTSOURCING SCHOOL MAINTENANCE? THE COST OF OWNING AND MAINTAINING A LARGE FLEET OF VEHICLES ALONG WITH EMPLOYEE BENEFITS AND SUPPLIES HAS TO BE CONSIDERABLE.
AND HOW ABOUT A SERIOUS LOOK AT CONSOLIDATING SOME DEPARTMENTS WITH OTHER DISTRICTS? PURCHASING SUPPLIES IS ONE I CAN THINK OF, BUT THERE ARE PROBABLY MORE.
COMPUTERS IN FIRST GRADE CLASSES CAN BE DONE AWAY WITH, FOR, UNLESS THE TEACHER HAS A FULL TIME AID WHO IS COMPUTER WISE AND CAN WORK WITH THE CHILDREN INDIVIDUALLY, THE CHILDREN WHO DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO A COMPUTER AT HOME AND MAY NOT HAVE COMPUTER EXPERIENCE ARE UNABLE TO USE THE COMPUTER TO GOOD ADVANTAGE. THE CLASSROOM TEACHER DOES NOT HAVE THE TIME TO WORK THE COMPUTER ONE-ON-ONE.
LASTLY, IF ANYONE IN FROM THE SCHOOL BOARD/ADMINISTRATION WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS WASTE IN THE SCHOOLS, I WILL BE HAPPY TO SPEAK ABOUT WHAT I CAN PERSONALLY ATTEST TO.THERE ARE TOUGH DECISIONS TO BE MADE, BUT REDUCING COSTS AND SPENDING IS A MUST! PLEASE CONSIDER MY COMMENTS.
We just moved to an older home to downsize and
save money on taxes in Greece, NY. They raised our
assessment $6,900. When we went to protest they
told us housing prices in Greece were on the rise.
My husband has determined that your taxes are based
on your income. Not the price of the house or the
square footage. When you apply for the star program
they require your IRS tax information. So they base
your new taxes on what you make, not what you
own. The neighbors across the street have a newer
house with 300 more sq ft and pay less taxes. Nothing
really makes sense, except they go by your income.
Sounds crazy but is it really?
I previously left a detailed reply and it is my guess that somebody did not want to hear or see the obvious truth. My comments were removed shortly after being posted.
I’m retired and living on social Security and withdrawals from my Ira and a small annuity. Much of the money goes to real estate taxes.
High taxes is not an upstate downstate issue. It is a statewide problem. $100,000.00 homes may exist upstate, They are few and far between downstate. I have a small 2 bedroom one bathroom, single story 1000 sf. summer home, without a basement or garage. It is on 4/10 ths of an acre, in Sag Harbor Village (Town of Southampton NY). In 2004 it was assessed at $345,000.00. In 2006 they inflated the assessment it to $928,000.00 and raised the taxes proportionally. I filed a grievance which was rejected and then I filed suit. The trail was a farce. The hearing was before a retired judge with little or no knowledge of real estate values. He threw me a bone and cut the assessment by approximately $100,000.00. Ultimately the assessor resigned or was fired. In 2007 home values did increase and I could have sold the house for a fair market value of $600,000.00. I complained and In early 2008 my assessment was reduced to a little over $750,000.00. Today I’d be hard pressed to find a buyer at $385,000.00. There are for sale signs on many of the nearby homes and prices will be dropping even further..
My Primary residence in the town of Brookhaven NY (central Suffolk County) is also grossly over assessed. According to the assessor the fair market value was $346,000.00 I filed a grievance and then filed suit. the assessment for my three bedroom one bath 1200 sf ranch type home on one acre, with an unfinished basement and a garage was subsequently reduced to a slightly less than $274,000.00. The taxes were reduced from well over $6,000.00 to just over $4,500.00 per year. If I could find a buyer in today’s market I’d be lucky to get $229,000.00
Many people with average incomes (for the Long Island area) are being ripped off even worse than I am. The municipal unions are politically connected and the most influential among them are the teachers and Police. They have use lies threats and extortion to gain salaries well in excess of $100,000.00 per year. When outrageous benefits and retirement packages are factored in. It becomes out and out theft of taxpayers money. In New York State we are in fact all renters. Fail to pay the Villages Towns and Counties and they have the Sheriff throw you out of the house and off the land.
I have been trying to fight my property taxes for several years now. I live on the shore of Lake Ontario in the town of Scriba. When I first moved here 12 years ago my property taxes totaled around $500.00. They are now around 1600.00. and thats with star rebate. I fought the last 2 increases lost the first , won the second, but it wasn’t easy. The last increase they wanted to raise my assesment from 80,000 to 125,000. I live in a double wide trailer around 1000 sq ft that is 20 years old. I pay a higher percentage rate than any other property in the same town for the land my trailer sits on because it is lakefront. which I have conceeded to but they also want me to pay more for my trailer because it sits on that land. Thats the biggest bunch of crap I ever heard. A trailer is a trailer , is a trailer. At 125,000 they put my trailers value at $90,000. thats obsured. If you took my trailer to any other place in this town it would be worth maybe 40,000 and thats pushing it. They have done the same thing to the rest of the people that live here too. Many have sold. I have an income of around 35,000 this is the first and only home I have ever owned, and now I too am putting my house up for sale. Now I have been looking at homes to buy and what a joke that is. I can afford 100,000 home without an issue but when you add in the taxes there is no way I can swing it. an extra $200 or more per month added to the morgage payment to pay the taxes is crazy.
Dennis and Lorraine,
Thank you for giving great examples of why we should no longer tolerate assessment.
Yes, we require government services, but why should we pay more for it just because we own a home?
All New Yorkers use the roads, the fire services, the police, the courts, the schools, etc.., so we should share the burden fairly, not based on the OPINION of one person, for what a property MIGHT sell for.
We must eliminate the duplicate government agencies, the tiny school districts, water districts, fire districts, towns and small villages.
I say let the county provide your local government services, and stop taxing everything to maintain these tiny government kingdoms all over the state.
Then, ABOLISH the property tax, and let your home be your home, not a tax liability. Lorraine, you should NOT have to fight your assessment, because there would be none. Dennis, I’m sure you’d rather be enjoying your time than going to court, so give your voice to government consolidation and abolishing the property tax.
http://www.fairtax.org
http://www.abolishthepropertytax.blogspot.com
To Lorraine, Dennis and Chris;
Please see my prior comment number 22. Agree that so called property taxes need to be eliminated but, until that happens property owners need to fight. If they don’t, it will be the same old story.
Lorraine, in your particular situation, the town assessor is not placing a fair assessment on your trailer and is taking advantage of the “water front” issue.
There has been a recent trend across the state whereby assessors are ear marking water front property and arbitrarily increasing assessments without substantiating an increase in market value.
In your situation they would need to produce a number of sales of similar (trailers) not stick built homes.
I am not sure where or how you obtained a reduction. More times that not property owners are forced to a SCAR (small claims assessment review) to obtain an appropriate reduction. Neither the assessor or board of assessment review is looking out for our interests.
To Chris
Just to add insult to injury My trailer is on a private road I do not receive any town services. My road is not plowed or maintained by the town. As a matter of fact 2 years ago during the week long snow we received, the residents lost control with keeping up with the incredible snowfall and drifts. We were trapped here behind 15 foot drifts. We called the town to help us. They refused. We took some of the residents out on taboggins so they would be safe. Then we had to call Syracuse and rent a machine to dig us out. We were trapped here for 2 days. Even the volunteer fire dept. said it was unsafe to leave us here, but there was nothing they could do. The only town service We receive is garbage pickup. This town is full of industry we have 3 nuclear plants as well as a large alluminum plant and several other large industries. They are getting programs, I am getting burned. I did use sales records to keep my property down. the assesor said homes were selling for over 100,000 I could only find 1. A 2 story modular. all others were in the 60’s. I think he thought I didn’t do my homework. I just heard today we are going to get hit again Lakefront going from 500.00 sq ft to 1000 sq ft. Thanks for the comments
Lorraine,
I live in Hastings, and I work with your assessor at Nine Mile Point.
I know and live with the same snowfall, and I feel your pain on the assessment issue.
My assessor lives in Volney, and assesses property in 2 or 3 towns in Oswego county. That’s probably about 10,000 properties. How accurate can he be?
A year after we built our house in 2002, our taxes went crazy. I checked with the assessor after the grievance period, and they had our house 1000 square feet bigger than we really are. Was that my fault? No, it was clearly the assessor’s fault. What could I (the taxpayer paying his salary) do about it? NOTHING!!! I had to pay exorbitant property taxes on a house that was 150% bigger than mine, making my assessed value per square foot way higher than everyone else.
The next year, it got jacked up even higher, and the assessor agreed that he had the wrong square footage, but I still had to go to the Board of Assessment Review to correct things. Guess what happened in 2005? There I was, right back up way too high compared to all the other homes in my neighborhood, and back at the board. It’s been the same fight every year.
I like my neighbors, but they’re getting a much better deal than I am! Do they like me pointing it out at the B.A.R. every year? What else can I do? What I pay in preposterous property taxes is a vacation my family can’t take every year, compared to my neighbors.
Please give your voice to fairness, to stopping the insanity of us all having to compare our property to each other’s.
Please give your voice to getting rid of a system where a sole individual, the assessor, having all the rights and authority, but none of the responsibility of paying for the nearly 10,000 taxing jurisdictions we have in New York.
I’m completely sick of it, and am embarrassed that those that came before us tolerated it for so long. We need to have the guts and the leadership to change things, NOW!
There has got to aggressive action to overhaul the system, or it will fail. There has got to be significant change; and that change has to be that we do not need local governments in 2009!
If this were 1802, and we had no phones, cars, internet, etc.. we would certainly need small governments all over the place. It just does not make sense anymore.
Consolidate all the villages and towns and fire districts and water districts and school districts and whatever else into the County governments, then ABOLISH the property tax!!!!
Chris Andrus
“The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all citizens.”
—Thomas Jefferson
Gene Young,
You are absolutely correct that there is not enough taxpayer involvement in purchasing decisions for local schools.
Consolidation and setting appropriate standards for what should be in the classroom is a great idea.
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Just read the post above about 1 assessor having 10,000 homes to review. How would consolidation affect the assessors position? Would one assessor now have to cover 50,000 homes?
I am very suspect of reducing or eliminating certain things so that government becomes less local. The federal government is undermining the states authority; now it seems like this movement is undermining the local official. Maybe we should start eliminating local mayors and common counsels so that we only have one for each 100,000 people.
The further away our elected representatives get from us the worse they become. The leash needs to be shorter, not longer.
My 2 cents, thanks for reading
J.R. Smith,
Thank you for your concern about the assessors!
My proposal is that by politically eliminating local school, town and village governments, we could then also eliminate the property tax.
Property taxes gone. No more assessors, either. No more comparing our properties to one another. No more grieving one person’s opinion. No more taxpayers on a fixed income being forced out of their homes because of rising property values.
Property value has nothing to do with anyone’s ability to pay taxes. There is a much more fair way to fund government services.
The “Abolish the Property Tax” movement is picking up steam, and is being seriously considered in North Dakota, Georgia, Florida, Texas and Pennsylvania.
I cannot believe the apathy that people have to have let this state come to this point. I love New York, including the climate and the people, but feel that I may be forced to leave at some point. I am a single nurse, and don’t know how I could afford to retire here. It is a sad and unfair situation, made worse every year by the greed of the wealthy lawmakers. I hope there is some truth the the expression, “what goes around, comes around”.
I don’t disagree with the comment about apathy. Perhaps we could start making the cuts to the budget by reducing our legislators pay and benefits to reflect the average wage in New York State. This would bring their pay from approximately $80k per year to around $45k per year and make them pay more for health care benefits as most private employers have cut these benefits for their employees. Perhaps this would be the motivation they need to start creating a responsible budget! As for Mr. Golisano leaving NYS, it’s sad but I would bet he already takes advantage of every tax loophole offered him due to his wealth. Loopholes that the average taxpayer does not enjoy! Yes, his philanthropy has been generous in the Rochester area however, allowing those with an abundance of wealth to ignore the seriousness of the poverty in our community is irresponsible as well!
My house won’t be paid off until I’m well into my sixties, so where will I have the earning power to pay the taxes? Absoultely ridiculous.
MR. GOLISANO,
I only have one thing to say to you. Quitter! I will take my ball and go home if you don’t play by my rules. What happened to the fight for reform and change in government in NYS. If everyone just quit like you, and ran from there problems this country would be worse than it is now. You started something that I supported, then cut and run. I have no respect for QUITTERS and I am sure other supporters will feel the same. Goodbye!!!! Maybe you can buy an election in Florida with the money you save……..Boo Hoo!
Mr. Golisano:
I was hoping you would stay around to help us get rid of Bloomberg. I do not mind taxes. I remember being in Guatemala in the 70s and a truck driver boosting about no taxes. I kept quiet but in my mind I was thinking about the large number of infant deaths due to no rural clinics, the non-existent transportation system, the high degree of illiteracy. BUT HOLD ON. I am angered by the corruption and lack of oversight of the way our money is spent. The tremendous misuse of money in the educational system. Pigs feeding at the trough! Mr. Golisano, why don’t you use your tremendous power to reveal the corruption of the DOE? We need information. We need access to media. Under Bloomberg, we get neither. We need people with power and money to help us expose the fraud and corrruption and sale of the the City to the highest bidder. We need a Voice.
Thank you.
Angela de Souza
THANK YOU TOM FOR WHAT YOU DO TO SAVE THE STATE
OF NEW YORK
Thank you so much Tom. You have the way and means to begin to make changes.
Thanks TOM
REFORM SHOULD INCLUDE MAKING THE PENSIONS OF form NEW YORK STATE & NEW YORK CITY GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES TAXABLE, (which are now exempt from New York State Income Taxes,) to equalize the treatment given the retirement plans on non-government employees ( IRA aaccounts, keogh accounts & etc.)
Ho Tom,
You are right on witht his. I became disabled about 7 yrs ago. ITs getting hard to keep up my taxes and now that i plan on getting marreid and i put my fiance’ name on the deed, the state cut out my disability tax reduction. WHY.. I still own this property and I am still permanently disabled.
ALL the taxes in this state are disproportionate and Way to high. I am thinking of leaving NY,
ANother issue is the NY State Thruway, which was supposed to have the tolls abolished many years ago and instead they keep raising them./ I dont use the thruway much at all anymore. It may take a few extra minutes to get somewhere, but the drive is usually very scenic and I save the tolls. The biggest reason I dont use it anymore is in protest.
This state is brginning to suck big time. Businesses cant survive here, that means loss of jobs, homes, families etc. And this Governor and the former one, are both crooks, legally. WE dont need this kind of RUle.
I would like to comment on Bill Scott’s letter, number 15 on the page. I too am a taxpayer in the Town of Hounsfield , and just like Bill , my assessment iincreased,going from $87100 to $217600. The property involved contains a garage and a half finished house,which has been in that state of completion for around 10 years. I had an appraisal done on the property. the property was appraised at $110000 . I went to the Board of Assessment review and they had determined the property was valued at $174200.No explaination to how they came up with the figure. The case is now in Small Claims. To take this case to higher level court would cost me in the neighborhood of $7000. As an individual with limited income I have virtually no power.and I am not alone in the system. Now that you have heard my status as a tax paying property owner,let tell you how the system is run in the Town of Hounsfield. The assessor is an appointed full time position.Mind you that this is one of the smallest towns in population in our county. Several with larger populations are sharing an assessor. Our assessor is one of the larger land holders in our town with nearly 600 acres of property.As a full time assessor he recieves all of the perks, retirement, health etc. . Rumor has it , although I cannot verify it at this time , our assessor has retired and is working the position as a consultant. Seems as though the system has supplemented this mans vocation . By the way did I mention that this man was a farmer. Any farmer I’ve ever met was so engulfed with his farm that he had no time for any other type of duties. I think the term full time for the position of assessor in the Town of Hounsfield may be a bit of an embelishment.I don’t know how the rest of the towns of NY are run , but the ” good ole boy system ” has got to go .
Too bad for NY that taxes are so out of control. I was considering moving back to that state after living here in Sunny Southern California for the past 35 years. But after looking at the home land taxes forget it! It is pathetic! What doesn’t someone get on the band wagon like they did in this state of california and get what we call proposition 13 (Thanks to Jarvis) on the ballot and fix the situation! Our taxes can not increase more than 2% per year from when you purchased the home. My taxes are 1.25% of the price I paid for my home. Makes much more sense. So sad to see people who have purchased their homes many years ago and losing them because of some bureaucratic idiot regulating their taxes! Stand up and fight if you want to change it!!
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